HomeLondon BridgeWider acceptance of Southeastern rail tickets on TfL services is urgently needed

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Wider acceptance of Southeastern rail tickets on TfL services is urgently needed — 7 Comments

  1. Don’t totally pan the attempts by railway managers to fix the issue – they are only doing (a) what they understand and (b) have confidence to try (public transport operators really fear the unknown and innovative)

    Providing additional capacity on RV1 might be an idea – along with highlighting the connecting routes on foot to the preferred bus stops (bus stops where the extended dwell time of a surge of passengers is less of a problem for safety and traffic flows) The may mean’deckers or even bendybuses (ask the longer serving drivers on 507/521 about the major issues when bendybuses wee replaced by rigid ones)

    A real nuisance is the inability to get people off trains East of London Bridge – The East London Line – gets people to Shoreditch High Street, just North of Liverpool Street and Bishopsgate for the City. The disused station at Spa Road Bermondsey last used to evacuate trains stranded by an incident at London Bridge, and convenient for Bermondsey JLE and a major bus corridor, could have been provided with interim platforms for some lines, or even reopened for Dartford Loop services?

    Finally no discussion on cycling – in 2004 the Thameslink Blockade at St Pancras saw cycle use rocket up by over 1000% in 2 months as the fastest and most convenient solution for many commuters. A similar surge was seen in 2006 when The Drain closed for 6 months and the impact was noted both at Waterloo (bike racks jammed up at over 200% of theoretical capacity) and Blackfriars Bridge, where the level of cycle traffic at peak times continues to rise and cycle counts may soon provide the highest % of any of the vehicle types moving across the bridge. This would create an even worse position with the Boris Bike scheme, where there are added costs to put around 500 bikes out/back through the 126 docking points which lie idle for much of the day, due to the severe tidal flows created by commuter use of a system NOT set up for commuter use. SWT’s Brompton Hire (100 bikes) from Waterloo is fully subscribed with a waiting list, but those able to get to Tonbridge could always hire a Brompton (£20 membership and £2.50/day) on a long term basis – keeping the bike with them in the office and at home. Commuters who have ‘converted’ report that they have saved the £1200+/year of paying for Zones 1&2 Bus/Tube and cut 20-50% from their door to desk journey times. The folding bike also offers the option of cycling to Victoria (10-20 minutes from most of central London) when your London Bridge options go skywards.

    A further option being side-stepped is to re-commission the line going in to Waterloo International which connected to the Dover Boat Train routes and thus pretty much all of the Kent-London rail system, and run trains in to the currently mothballed 4 platforms.

    Of course some of the options are not in the scope of what DfT requires Southeastern or Network Rail to provide, and if for example paying for spare drivers to sit drinking tea as a contingency measure for when ‘traincrew are delayed on an incoming train’ is not allowed for as a cost in the franchise then it isn’t going to happen – and experience of almost every activity is that when you try to wring 90% of greater utilisation from the system and equipment the potential for it falling over rises exponetially with every percentage point. That is why Southwest Trains ‘slack’ timetable of 2004 delivers a far greater certainty on journey times, often arriving ‘early’ and waiting

  2. @Dave H: Thanks, some interesting ideas here. We asked Southeastern and Network Rail about extra overnight cycle storage at Charing Cross and Waterloo East, but all they would talk about was cycle storage at London Bridge! If they want people to avoid London Bridge then the cycle storage needs to be elsewhere!!

  3. Allowing ticket holders to use Victoria would me a massive help for many I’m sure. I get trains from Otford to Sevenoaks and then from Sevenoaks I need to reach London Bridge. If Victoria was available then I would certainly just get the train to there and then use the tube to Monument, it would mean avoiding London Bridge / Cannon St altogether. At the moment I am having to go to Waterloo East, then back to London Bridge on the tube, and then the 15 minute walk to the office. I am closest to Monument tube but I am unable to use the tube to there!

  4. Very sound suggestions and I agree with them all. I would add one other – to allow those standing in overcrowded trains to be able to use unused first class seating. It makes sense to use all available space. Thanks for pushing them on these points. They really don’t seem to be able to figure it out on their own! Which is a little worrying…..

  5. @Adam Thanks. Conductors have the ability to “de-classify” First Class accommodation at times of disruption, but it’s never been clear what the criteria are or whether they are applied systematically. One possibility that has been suggested in the past is that the rule could be that after a train has left London going outward, or after a train has left its last stop before London going inward, then any unused First Class seats could be taken. That would still give First Class ticket holders the seat they have paid for, but not of course the empty seats that they haven’t paid for! Enforcement could be a problem though. It would be interesting to hear more views on this please

  6. Why isn’t City Thameslink one of the permitted stations? A 15 bus is valid between CS and CX. It goes past City Thameslink (a valid Southeastern London terminus) and a good way to avoid London Bridge but I cannot board a bus there since I lose my ticket on exit from the station. If I get off at Blackfriars my ticket is returned and the map says I can board the 15 bus if I walk up to Ludgate Hill right outside City Thameslink station!

  7. Whilst working approx 6 mins from cannon St, I start my journey at Otford and would seriously consider going via Victoria to avoid overcrowded trains. The journey is only slightly longer but why should I pay £5 a day to do this?

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