Tomorrow it begins. The rebuilding of the Southeastern side of London Bridge. A new timetable. Fewer trains to Charing Cross, Waterloo East and London Bridge. The biggest changes of our commuting generation.
There’s been a crescendo of communications from the railway company in the last few days. We’ve published our “Survival Guide” for Sevenoaks area passengers. Hopefully everyone now knows that things are changing.
Yet no-one – not even Southeastern – really knows what’s going to happen. The re-opening of the other half of London Bridge went seriously wrong last week – even though the railway companies maintained afterwards that their plans were good.
The next few days could be tough. It always takes time for the drivers and signallers to learn how to make a new timetable work in practice. Many passengers will initially try to change their journey slightly, and only later try other routes. The major engineering work this weekend introduces additional risks of signalling or track failures on Monday.
On the other hand the weather is forecast mild all week, and we are all prepared for the worst. It may not initially seem as bad as we all feared. And unfortunately most of us know how to cope with one bad day.
The real test may come in a few weeks. There are many risks in the programme, and they do not go away: if platforms are dangerously overcrowded; if there is disruption due to failures after engineering work; if there is snow or other bad weather; if there is a serious incident; if the new timetable does not settle down; or if there is just one of the myriad of supposed “one-off events” that have disrupted services about once a week this autumn.
Evenings could be more of a challenge than mornings. Going to London slow trains starting empty from Sevenoaks are a fall-back. Coming home most services will start full from full stations – and no-one has the option of simply abandoning their journey.
When we are all tired and fed up already, it will then be apparent that passenger information systems, always a weak point, have not been upgraded to ensure that passengers have prompt, accurate and actionable information about services; that the free use of the tube for alternative routes has been kept to a miserly minimum; and that the extra staff now visible do not have access to the information to give practical help.
Good luck everyone.
Took the 07:40 from Dunton Green (it was a couple of minutes late) and changed at Chelsfield this morning for a Charing Cross service. The fast train that I boarded was scarily quiet and I actually got a seat. So far so good!
Fingers crossed for this evening!
Got the train from tonbridge this morning. 8:15. As the poster above pointed out,very quiet….very strange. I suspect my train this evening from LBG will not have similar ‘issues’.
Had a very scary experience and almost got crushed this evening trying to get into London Bridge Station as BTP had put up barriers to stop people from entering.
Hope the system improves tomorrow otherwise someone will get seriously hurt.
South Eastern and Network Rail did pretty well in Monday morning’s rush hour. After a couple of early cancellations as weekend work overran the new timetable kicked in with only a few delays.
As we expected, peak trains to London Bridge and Cannon Street were standing room only when they left Sevenoaks – significantly more crowded than usual. Cannon Street and Blackfriars stations were busy, but people seemed to have got the message to avoid London Bridge. Around 8.15 it was quieter than a normal day.
The journey home was less good for some. Cannon Street trains were crowded and delayed. People trying to get on Sevenoaks trains at London Bridge found rather unhelpful crowd control measures in place, and it looks as if further lessons need to be drawn after last week. The platforms don’t seem big enough to handle all the people who want to get on there in ways which make them feel safe.
The problems we expected to see at Waterloo East – where the platforms and access are also tight – didn’t emerge today, although the platforms were reported as busier than usual in the evening, but we’ll see what happens as more people switch away from London Bridge.
I must say I’m actually pretty appalled by what is going on regarding the London Bridge redevelopment. Like many other commuters, I rely on catching a connecting train between Otford and Sevenoaks to get to London Bridge. I usually work late shifts, so I would catch the 12.37 from Otford and would then catch either the 12.44 (which would never happen as the Thamelink train would always be later arriving at Otford) or more likely the 12.49 fast to London Bridge. So, in their infinite wisdom, Southeastern have decided to keep the 44 to London Bridge, meaning that 9 times out of 10 I and everyone else will miss the connection. The 49 has been scrapped, meaning that I have to wait until 14 past for the next train to LB.
The journey home however is even more shambolic. There is now only 2 trains an hour coming home from London Bridge. Yesterday I got the 21.07 (which incidentally was 15 minutes late) and it was due to arrive to Sevenoaks at 21.33. The connecting trains however depart Sevenoaks on the hour and half past the hour. Which means no matter what train you get from LB it means you will have to wait 27 minutes for a connecting train to Bat and Ball / Otford etc.
Who on earth devised this new timetable??? And how on earth are we now paying more money for an infinitely worse service??? The re building of London Bridge station will in no way benefit me so why on earth should we suffer and have to pay more for privilege???
I am disgusted by the new timetable introduced by SouthEastern. I have to catch a connecting Sevenoaks train (I live in Eynsford) at either Bromley South or Swanley. The new timetable ensures that I can no longer catch any of the convenient connections. Instead I have an extra 20 minutes added to every commute home. Sometimes being left sat at Bromley South for 20 minutes. Well done SouthEastern you have completely shafted everyone who lives in Eynsford and Shoreham. Did no one think about connecting trains for these commuters? You have decided to run the majority of the Ashford services fast – appalling considering these trains go through these stations. They used to stop at Swanley. Why stop them and make our lives so difficult. Who on earth devised this new timetable – I am sure its someone that doesnt travel by train. Why on earth are we now being expected to pay more money for an evening more appalling service. This timetable is an absolute joke. There is no need to run trains fast, missing out on stations where people need to make connections!
Tuesday 13 January: 6:44 SEV >CX half empty, 6:53 SEV>CS standing room only,
Tuesday 13 January :-
7.40 DG to LB, long train (12 coaches ?), as busy as shorter trains used to be. 9 minutes late arriving.
17.26 WE to DG (via Chelsfield), half empty, a dream.
I commute from Chelsfield to Canary Wharf, so far not too bad, been getting slow cannon at trains in and getting Jubilee from Lon bridge as normal. In evenings going back via Southwark to Waterloo E has worked well. Do not understand why they have cannon st trains which still stop at LBG now also stopping any New Cross. I understand link to East now but surely should be the Charing x trains that won’t now stop at LBG that should stop at New Cross??
Caught the 18.06 from London Bridge to Sevenoaks today. Train massively over-crowded. A police officer was shouting at people near the doors to move down, but there was just no more room and some people were quite upset by this. Awful scenes frankly until a few stops in when people fell off the train and it eased a bit. Shocking really – passengers are treated as prisoners, not customers. Clearly no real planning in place and you wonder how long South Easyern can keep their franchise, as this is probably the worst train company I have used anywhere in the World – from the appalling legroom when you do get a seat, to the tired, dirty rolling stock, to the frequent delays and cancellations and general complete lack of information. I’d say they have contempt for the passengers, but I don’t think they even care that much.
Additional note
I came off the Northern line – we were prevented from going up the escalators and forced up a back staircase instead, through what appeared to be a building site! There were a few police around.
The problem came when the train turned up and was nearly full. The policeman was shouting at people to squeeze on, when the train was already dangerously packed. Seemed like a scene from a war film!
The first off peak train that can get me to Cannon Street leaves @ 9.44.
If I get the 29 i am not ‘allowed’ to get the Waterloo and City link to Cannon Street instead having to go to Charing Cross to take the District Line which adds 25 minutes to my already delayed journey.
Having opted for the 44 the Sevenoaks staff added 3 stops to the journey meaning my trip took 37 minutes longer than before.
Various other gripes but why on earth can they not allow a traverse on the Waterloo and City line.
Not impressed. Not impressed at all.
@Daniel: It’s difficult for Charing Cross trains to stop at New Cross because some years ago the railway removed the platform on the Charing Cross tracks! We did suggest that they might build a temporary platform since the land is still there ….
@Anne We’ve asked Southeastern to re-open the discussion with TFL on alternative routes – to include Victoria and the Waterloo & City line. They are reluctant to do so – probably because of money. But we think that there should be funding to be found within the £6.5 billion London Bridge rebuilding budget.
I tried DLR from Canary Wharf to Bank then Cannon St tonight. Less crush at the station but still no seat.
Previously, between 6:10 and 7:23 there were (I think) 7 trains stopping at London Bridge. Now there’s only one – the 6:53. It’s rammed. Predictably.
So now you have 1 train running to London that’s absolutely packed and a load of half-empty ones. Well done South Eastern.
Absolute nightmare on the Sevenoaks line at Grove Park these days. Southeastern have taken 1 out of only 3 direct trains we had to Cannon St and replaced it with a Charing Cross train. Why?? We have 40 minutes now between London Bridge services, we are the busiest station on that line collecting commuters from Bromley North and Sundridge Park as well and as the last stop on the line, all we have are packed trains every day that we cannot get on.
The best part is watching a mainline train to Cannon Street slow at the platform nearly everyday, always half empty around 0820 but obviously Southeastern couldn’t work out to add this one stop to its schedule.
The situation is just untenable. On top of that, the Waterloo and City line doesn’t accept train tickets – that would have helped City workers that used to walk from London Bridge. They could have got down at WAE on a CHX service and used the Waterloo and City Line to Bank. But this takes logic and Southeastern have none.
Just a couple of points to think about…
1) people would be more accommodating regarding a huge station upgrade if they had received an acceptable service level prior to this disruption. In case people haven’t noticed, they haven’t.
2) Southeastern have openly admitted that punctuality and reliability have grown worse over the last two years, yet fares continue to increase by inflation or more. Wage increases have been on average well below this level. In no other institution, public or private, would this be acceptable…
3) Privatisation was implemented on the premise of competition increasing quality of service. This has not been the case for many years. There is no competition.
4) I feel genuinely sorry for the station staff. This is not their fault and inevitably some understandably irritated commuters have been less than pleasant to them. These employees are probably on low pay and are taking the flak on the front line whilst executives have taken six figure salaries in the last few years.
5) we, the undervalued customer in the south east, appear to be subsidising rail costs in other parts of the country
6) how is any of this a) legal b) continuing to happen?
7) perhaps we should all stop buying tickets and everyone jumps barriers until we get some improvements or at the very least proportionate ticket prices to the level of service.
I forgot to mention that the most galling and ridiculous thing is that off-peak services are consistently leaving late by 6 or 7 minutes for no apparent reason. I missed my connection because of this on Sunday night and ended up waiting in the cold for 35 minutes for the next train. No reply to my tweet from southeastern, perhaps they all made it home on time!
What has happened to taking pride in what we do in this country? I personally would be embarrassed as a driver if my train was late on arrival – this is what people are paid to get right…
7.40 DG to LB. 12 coaches. Standing only from Chislehurst, people are starting to use the full length of the train. Arrived 8.22 (4 mins late).
A classic this morning. The 6.53 to CST was pretty much unboardable so decided to get the slow train 6.56 to CST. Everything said on time, a train finally arrived shortly after 7 and then at 7.08 we were told the 6.56 was now cancelled and was becoming the 7.16 and was advised by staff to get the 7.11 CHX train and change at Waterloo east on to the Waterloo and City line to get to Bank, next to CST. Got to the Bank gate line to be told by staff re coded ticket not valid at Bank. Given that all LBG passengers are now getting on the CST train, I don’t understand why SE would not include SEV-WAE-BANK as a valid route to ease pressure on the CST services in the morning peak
They haven’t made it any easier for Sevenoaks commuters who go to Otford to change onto the fast Ashford-Blackfriars service which leaves Otford at 07:22. This used to be an 8-car Thameslink train; it is now a 6-car South Eastern train, cramped, dirty and the majority of people standing from Otford. By the time it gets to Bromley South it is like a rugby scrum. SE Trains say that they have added an additional peak Ashford/Blackfriars service which should alleviate pressure, but the fact seems to have escaped them that, as this service doesn’t arrive at Blackfriars until 09:53, it is too late for the majority of commuters who do still work the core 9.00/9.30 to 5.00/5.30 hours.
Taking into account the time they have had to prepare for these works, it is becoming increasingly apparent that someone has worked out the timetable on the back of a fag packet and hoped for the best.
spot on James. Likewise they should allow Victoria to Cannon St / Monument but that would mean using common sense!! Their sole care for these 18 months should be for people to get to their work on time, whichever route it takes.
Caught the 06:44 this morning to CHX and 15 bus back to the City, not a bad journey apart from no heating. Wish the 521 bus was included as well, that shuttles between Waterloo CST and LNB.
@Rob: Thanks. Good point about the 521. Some people have asked about Waterloo & City, but that’s got fixed capacity and is already crowded. It would be easier to put more 521s on the route to cope with extra volume, as has been done with the 381 running south of the river between London Bridge and Waterloo.
Caught the replacement for the cancelled 08:20 Chislehurst to CST today.
It leaves 13mins earlier and supposedly arrives at BLACKFRIARS at 08:48.
Barely enough time to run to the office (near CST) for 09:00. Of course this supposed alternative has been late every day so far, today 7mins late.
On the plus side, train was half empty the entire journey, probably because people don’t want to add 15 mins to a 27 min journey, have to walk further to the office and be late everyday!
If this is to be the much touted by Southeastern “viable alternative”, it needs to run somewhere near on time as a minimum requirement.
The trains from Hildeborough are a joke. They have actually reduced the morning services, forcing even more people onto the Cannon Street services. Unless you want to get the 6am train, there is now only one choice of train if you don’t want to fight for standing space…and this is for over a year and a half?
If it seems bad now, it’s only going to get worse (and frankly more dangerous) in the summer.
Southeastern should hang their heads in shame!
@Susan Your SER ticket should allow you a free transfer from Blackfriars to CST on the District/Circle line. This may quicker than walking.
Also the 15 and 17 buses should also accept your ticket although they run along Ludgate Hill past City Thameslink station. The 17 runs past the front of CST station on its way to LBridge.
Thank -Good to know. RE comments on twitter,wanting to use Mansion House, was thinking of X fer from CHX. 7 mins closer to work than CST. Would make difference between late and on Time. Forcing me to go past Mansion House to CST makes using CHX as an alternative very unattractive.
Especan as the rational states it’s so other passengers are not “inconvenienced”. What about my inconvenience?
On Wednesday I travelled to LB on the 10.44 to LB and returned on the 15.33 from CS. Both were on time.
I took the opportunity to speak to staff.
One of the Sevenoaks platform staff said that the early LB/CS trains were very overcrowded and that he did not think that passengers would accept the conditions, but that the platforms were manageable. Interestingly he added that he understood that they were looking into ways of making improvements.
The train conductor had not been rostered on the early morning trains to CS. I asked how to get to Blackfriars from LB. He did not know but used his machine to find out. It did not work – it had been playing up all day. He then produced the “Major changes…” pamphlet and advised the 17 bus.
At LB I asked two agency staff the way to Blackfriars. They did not know but suggested the Northern line. At the foot of the ramp another agency man said to go to platform 3, train to CS, then District line. At the ticket office/booth a grumpy woman could not help me but her male companion was very helpful, not only telling me to take the 17 or RV1 bus but the location of the bus stops, their identification letter and three ways to get down to Tooley St.
At CS an agency and a railway man said they had had to shut the gates on Monday evening and anticipated closing them on Friday (today) . With black humour they joked “that’s when they stand out there and shout abuse at us”.
No police were visible.
Everyone I spoke to (apart from the grumpy lady) was pleasant, attempted to help and were willing to talk