Photo Credit: Southeastern
Southeastern launched their smartcard ticket on Monday. They had an event at Sevenoaks station. The Rail Minister Paul Maynard was there: we thought that he looked a bit embarassed – perhaps because his Department apparently paid Southeastern £5.5m to implement a system less capable than Oyster ten years later than TfL.
When one cuts through the hype and looks at what Southeastern’s “The Key” can and cannot do, it does look embarrassingly little:
What you CAN do
- Order a free Key card online
- Load a season ticket at a TVM or at the gates
- Get a free replacement if you lose it
What you CANNOT do
- Get a Key card from a Ticket Office or local shop (unlike Oyster)
- Travel on a Pay As You Go basis (unlike Oyster and Southern’s different Key card in some circumstances)
- Use a Contactless Payment Card (unlike TfL Overground)
- Travel for fewer than five days per week at season ticket rates (unlike Chiltern Railways)
- Top up when it suits you, with an amount that suits you (unlike Oyster)
- Load a single or return ticket (unlike the Southern Railways completely different and incompatible smartcard, confusingly also called The Key)
- Lend your card to someone else (unlike Oyster Pay As You Go)
- Get an automatic Delay Repay refund (unlike c2c’s Smartcard)
- Benefit from daily capping (unlike TfL Overground and other Oyster services)
- Benefit from Monday to Sunday capping (unlike TfL Overground and other contactless services)
- Load a ticket at Blackfriars, City Thameslink, Farringdon, Denmark Hill (that’s Thameslink’s territory, and they have their own completely different and incompatible smartcard, also called The Key)
- Load a ticket onto a card at a Ticket Office (unlike Oyster)
- Use it to claim Annual Gold Card discounts on other rail services (you’ll need an additional paper certificate for that … which seems to defeat the point)
- Use it for a season ticket that covers non-Southeastern rail services (unlike TfL’s Oyster and Contactless in London, which covers almost all rail services)
- Be guaranteed that you are only paying the minimum fare for the journey you are actually making (unlike TfL’s Oyster and Contactless)
- Touch in on a bus within 3 minutes of touching out at a railway station (unlike … almost every payment card on the planet – why?)
So Southeastern’s The Key is essentially just a hard plastic version of a season ticket. Currently it offers few benefits and they seem to accrue much more to the Train Operating Company than to the passenger. Tickets have to be ordered online or at ticket machines (but only outside London) and are loaded on to the card at ticket gates, ticket machines or validators, thereby minimising the costs of postage and of staffing the ticket offices.
Kent News are reporting that “£5.5m Southeastern smart card blasted ‘a total waste of money’ by rail campaigners” with a Campaign for Better Transport representative saying:
“This is a total waste of money a far as most passengers are concerned. Southeastern commuters were promised a smart card and all they are getting is a plastic version of the paper ticket they already have.
“We would have hoped Southeastern would’ve taken this opportunity to use the new smartcard to introduce things like automatic refunds for delays or cancellations and season tickets for part-time workers, but unfortunately for passengers this is not the case.”
What do you think? Please let us know here.
Absolutely agree. An utter waste of the famous “hard working people’s” tax. With all the rules about proper use of public funds, you’d think this sort of thing would be illegal.
One minor point though. If you have an Oyster annual, you still need a piece of paper (sent automatically on purchase) to get NR Gold Card discount. Of course, if there was a properly – integrated smartcard ticketing system……
It does have one advantage that in theory it will work all the time and not have magnetic strip get corrupted like happens at present and replacing a lost ticket (card) should be much easier.
Other than that, the long list of drawbacks above says it all.
@charles True. But conversely when the reader fails the Jobsworth at the barrier will not be able to read it and so could force you to pay again?
I did not get an answer from SE re whether, at stations without ticket barriers, I would still need to touch in or out. Any ideas ?
@nick As we understand it, the Southeastern Key only stores season tickets, and so it just tells the barrier reader that it has a season ticket. So if you cannot touch in or touch out it should not matter. It would be different for Pay As You Go, but the Southeastern Key does not support that function (and Southeastern tell us they have no plans to do so).
@ Mike Pellatt
The Annual Gold Card discount can be set on to your Oyster card at Tube, London Overground and TfL Rail stations, some National Rail station ticket offices, Oyster Ticket Stops (local shops and newsagents across London) and Visitor Centres.
You need to show your Annual Gold Card or Gold Record Card and ask them to set the Railcard discount.
However, you do still need to carry your Annual Gold Card or Gold Record Card with you at all times, regardless of the service you are using.
@ Nick Goodwin
It’s not a problem at stations without barriers or validators.
Southeastern’s What Is The Key? FAQ says “Each seamless journey will begin by tapping The Key at an automatic ticket barrier or validator and tapping out where possible.
I work 3 days/week so this is useless to me. I didn’t mind until I discovered that it cost £5.5 million. Now I’m annoyed!
If your company offers season ticket loan schemes through Trainline you can’t get the ticket added to the key card
It sounds like a complete waste of money.
@Gerry. I was pointing out that if I have an annual season on an Oyster card, I need the paper gold record card to get a gold card discount on a A Random NR Journey, so in this respect, the key card is the same as oytster
On the validator piece.. This is the little reader on the TVM recently installed (and never working) at Dunton Green. How is that going to work if someone is using the machine to buy a ticket? Will a Key holder need to cue up just to tap in? What happens if they fail to tap in?
It seems like a really silly idea. Oyster readers would be so much simpler.
What a waste of £5.5m of public money. TFL would have funded an Oyster extension from their own revenue.
#GraylingMustResign
@ Mike Pellatt
My understanding is that a railcard discount can be stored on an Oyster card, so Oyster will then charge you the discounted PAYG fare automatically. However, you do need to carry the Gold Record Card to show that you’re still entitled to the discount.
In contrast, you can’t store a discount on a Southeastern Key, nor can you use it for ordinary single and return PAYG journeys.
So we’ve been sold a pup because The Key is far inferior to Oyster.
@ Paul Malyon
The Key Network Map states that at Dunton Green you can “Collect or purchase Key tickets from ticket vending machines and travel”.
As with a paper season ticket, you need to use it at a gate only if it is closed.
No wonder he was embarrassed, launching at a station that can only accept paper tickets!
I will be happy to be able to touch in and out, easier for us left handers. Other than that, it sounds too little, too late, too expensive and too behind the times, compared to what we could have expected from current ticketing systems now. Sadly lacking on functionality. Another disappointment, to add to everything else our railway franchises deliver…
Having considered all the available information about “The-Key” I have come to the conclusion that it is not worth getting and I will carry on using a paper ticket when I renew my season ticket at the end of the month. The only advantage that “The-Key” offers is to Southeastern; if enough people can be conned in to obtaining “The-Key” rather than using paper tickets they will be able to reduce the number of staff in booking offices and probably be able to close many booking offices in the future.
I assume that you don’t get a paper ticket as well as the key, so evidencing you have a ticket if the card cannot be read or you just want to wave it as you push through the open gate as we do at Tonbridge and wave it under the noise of the officious Revenue Protection Officers won’t work
Quite amazing that SE have the effrontery to install something that has very little benefit to the customer.
Speaking several years ago to their accountant (used to live in The Drive), they were running quite well for the period they weren’t run by a limited company.
Bring on nationalisation!
When I transferred my Annual Season onto the Key card, they exceptionally let me keep my paper annual ticket as a Gold record card, because it will be needed if you travel on non-Southeastern trains and want to use the gold card discount. They are not yet set up fully as yet, but intend to issue dedicated Gold record cards, once their systems are fully up and running next year 2017.
If you try and use the SE website to purchase a season ticket (via your Key account) that includes travel card zones you will currently find that this is not possible. Apparently SE are aware of this problem.
It seems that the Key has been launched without the necessary technical and support infrastructure, so like others I will stick with the paper ticket. If there’s one thing this isn’t it’s Smart.
I would dispute this article – I have paid £3.5k for an annual season ticket and categorically could not “Load a season ticket at a TVM or at the gates”.
The station staff said they were not trained to assist – customer services took 30 minutes to tell me the same thing over the phone. Their solution – buy another PAPER ticket (they would not give me a free interim one even though they knew I had paid them for the annual ticket) and hope South Eastern fix the situation – well I will not hold my breath. So I have bought a second ticket, but meanwhile the first payment sits in limbo.
A disgusting customer service quite frankly.
Well, after everything I have read here over the last couple of weeks, much as I would like the ability to plip myself through the gates with the Key, there are too many ifs, buts and negatives to all this. I have opted for a further paper annual season ticket, in the hopes that much of this gets sorted out in the next 12 months. Am I holding my breath on this? No!
I had a reply from Southeastern today about Lewisham Station being not yet Key enabled at present…
Thank you for your webform dated 10th December.
I am very sorry for the delay in replying to your query. We have experienced extremely high numbers of enquiries regarding the key and we have been trying our hardest to work through them as quickly as possible.
Thank you for letting us know about the problem you have experienced at Lewisham Station.
There are a few minor teething problems with some of the barrier systems at stations. These are yet to receive the update which will allow the Key to work. I have been advised these updates will be achieved by the end of January. You should then have no more problems with barriers!
Thank you again for highlighting this particular problem and thank you for your patience with the new ticke! ting system!
Yours sincerely
Lawrence Gater
Customer Relations Officer
Southeastern
I have a Key, never used it.
I have a paper annual season ticket. Does anyone know if I transfer the season ticket the Key whether I have to give up the paper ticket. I quite like the back up of the paper ticket and it also evidences for the Gold car offers. Most importantly, if the paper ticket is lost, saves an argument as key can be used – essentially – can you mix and match ?
@Charles
The Southeastern website https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/tickets/the-key is not clear on what happens to the paper ticket after you have transferred it to the Key. It is Do-It-Yourself so if you don’t destroy the paper ticket then you still have it!
There is supposed to be a new and separate card to act as the Gold Card, but other supporters have reported that it is difficult to obtain at the moment.
Despite years to prepare, some of the practical issues do not seem to have been ready for the launch ….
Southeastern have NOT managed to set up the gold record card system as yet, their staff did advise me to keep the Paper Annual Ticket once I get my Key Card, and use that as the Discount card. They advised me to always buy an Annual on Paper first, wait 48 hours for the records to fully update, then log on and register for the Key card and request a”Paper Ticket Transfer” in a single online session without logging off. The Key card was posted to my home, and I was advised to retain the Paper ticket too. It is expected to all change in Dec-2018, when Crossrail opens, as the ticketing system will require a Major Update.
@kai Chung
Thanks for this. Crossrail poses many challenges, such as the definition of London Terminals!
I have an annual paper season ticket from Southeastern covering zones 1-6. Annoyingly, I have to replace it regularly because it stops working for some reason. When Southeastern announced “The Key” I have ordered one, hoping to transfer my paper ticket to it. First, I could not transfer my ticket online because of the glitch in their system, Customer service suggested to wait. Few month later I found out that they can’t transfer my ticket to “The Key” because it is an Oyster territory. It is just a useless piece of plastic. What a waste of time and money.
@Volodymyr
The durability of The Key is one of its few merits; the paper annual season tickets become worn and unreadable due to being passed through the gates.
We are surprised that you have been told that you cannot put a Travelcard annual season ticket onto The Key. Years ago the Department for Transport paid Transport for London to convert all the TfL readers to read Travelcard products from ITSO smartcards (the Key is one of these). And the Southeastern FAQs say that Travelcards can be loaded onto the Key. Could you forward the email from Customers Services to us please at secretary [at] srta [dot] org [dot] uk
@Secretary
Unfortunately the explanation was given to me over the phone. The SE told me that they can’t transfer my annual travelcard because my departure station “Sidcup” is within the TfL area. I have contacted the Customer service once again to confirm that and I will forward the reply, once I receive it.
Another very annoying experience is the transfer procedure itself.
If you want to do it over the web, you need to register and once you registered you only have the 2 hours window to transfer the ticket. If you are late or, as in my case, had any problems you have to contact the Customer service. In my case the only thing the Customer service was able to do after few month was to delete my account from the system and ask to re-register.
Staff in the ticket offices could not help me either.
Tried to order a monthly season ticket online, paid for it up front but when I went to load the ticket on the key card, it wouldn’t work. Station staff not interested “its nothing to do with them” apparently. Called customer service three times. First call, the operator didn’t know how to use the card. Second call I was cut off after half an hour on hold. Third call, I was told there was a glitch in the system but they don’t know when it’ll be fixed and I basically can’t travel on a ticket I’ve paid for. It seems nobody can help me, and I can’t get a refund either. Basically its a scam. Avoid it like the plague and just get normal paper tickets, these key cards are just a huge white elephant.
You MUST request a CHARGE BACK asap with your card company, the law states that your card company must process the refund, NOT Southeastern, Confirm in writing to your card company asap and explain what happened.
Stupidly I used Paypal and the payment has gone through already. I’m screwed basically. They can’t offer a refund, ticket is useless and the station staff can’t help as they aren’t trained and can’t do anything. Their attitude is basically sort it out yourself. I’ve been all day on the phone to customer service. They can’t do anything either. NEVER AGAIN WILL I USE A KEY CARD.
I found out that you can raise a Paypal Dispute Claim which is a similar process to the Chargeback on a Credit or Debit card. Explain what happened, and you chould receive a refund within 28 days.
Log onto your Paypal account and follow the prompts.
Reading this forum, I have just renewed my Annual ticket today, but bought an over the counter traditional one to be on the safe side, and requested a Keycard Transfer online for Pickup at my nominated station on the Starting date next week.
@Kai
Thanks for letting us know. Do please update us on what happens next week!
Southeastern have just replied me that they are NOT able to issue Key Cards from Abbey Wood Station anymore, due to the Transfer to TFL. I will have to stick with paper tickets, and asking for an Ticket Encode Exchange every couple of months from now on. I will miss the Key Card.
@kai
Thanks for this update. In fact it has emerged, partially at our Annual General Meeting last week, that currently all Southeastern ticket offices do not have access to the Key system and so cannot issue or administer Key cards. This can only be done by the South East Flexible Ticketing office (which is not even part of Southeastern). Apparently the systems work and training were not part of the £5.5m that DfT paid Southeastern to implement SEFT, and DfT are about to give a further £3m to Southeastern to enable ticket offices to be able to help customers. It’s typical that a consistent, all-channel, customer interface was not included in the original plans.
I have an further update on the Key – There is a formal solution round this – I just collected my shiny new Key Card from Cannon Street station this evening in exchange for my paper annual ticket, and used it for the first time. Southeastern permit Annual Key Transfers to be picked up from their three major Central London Stations, i.e. Charing Cross, Cannon Street or London Bridge. If your regular journey ends at one of these three major stations, you can collect Annual Key Transfers from there instead of your Home Station.
@kai
Thanks for this update.
We understand that the original specification for DfT’s SEFT (branded “The Key” by Southeastern), for which DfT paid SER £5.5m, excluded the technical, procedural and training measures needed for SER ticket offices and ticket office staff to handle “The Key”, and that DfT have recently agreed to pay SER a further £3m to introduce ticket office support. SER are piloting the new ticket office systems and procedures at Cannon Street because a surprisingly large number of season tickets are issued there.
Is it true that you can only load a new ticket on the SE keycard at a destinated stn?
What happens if the ticket loader is not working but you have paid for the ticket online? Do you need to line up at the ticket office to load the ticket into the card?
@Jeff That certainly was the case originally. We understand that recently some technical improvements have allowed paper tickets bought on the web to be collected in places other than the nominated station. But I am afraid that we do not know whether this applies to loading onto a Key card, especially at the barriers where the technical challenge is greater.
Do I still need to queue and tap in at a ticket vending machine if my station has no barriers to load my ticket?
In the original version of the system, yes. It has been reported that a recent update allows tickets to be loaded onto the Key at other stations, but the ticket would not be on the card if checked between the two stations.
A piece of Good News to report here, Further to Southeastern’s email to me in mid January 2018, advising that the Key/ITSO Conversion at Lewisham is due to be Completed by the Week Beginning 4th February 2018. I am pleased to state that my Key card worked perfectly when Swiped at Lewisham’s Gateline Barrier today, on both Outward and Return Joruneys (Incidentally on Both the gatelines at Lewisham). It looks like the the long awaited Upgrade to ITSO smart card operation is Complete on the Southeastern Network, with the final station coming On-Line at Lewisham this week.
@Kai That sounds like a small step forward for an integrated system, but there is a long way to go – we want integrated pay-as-you-go Oyster fares from Sevenoaks to any TfL station (as Swanley and Dartford already have). The Key product does not seem capable of doing that.