HomeFaresSoutheastern Fare Structure and Ticket Purchasing: What Do We Want?

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Southeastern Fare Structure and Ticket Purchasing: What Do We Want? — 9 Comments

  1. I think it’s important to prioritise what is wanted against what is realistic. It doesn’t sound like the Oyster system is coming any time soon so what are the easier things to fix (low hanging fruit:
    1) is it possible to put pressure on them to introduce flexible working tickets. In an environment where more and more companies are insisting employees work at home 1-2 days a week (to save on Real Estate costs) it’s double whammy when the commuter doesn’t benefit from a fare discount – not withstanding those part time and on part time salaries who suffer even more.
    2) Cost per mile – would be good to understand how rail companies calculate this. Ridiculous that it’s more expensive here.
    3) Didn’t realise that Sevenoaks excluded from open return but Tonbridge? Since when was there a grey zone – seems no benefit to anyone other than SE rail.
    4) Capacity. All good and well putting on 12 coaches but not when they send picnic table trains up with 20% less seating capacity!
    5) Vending machines. I think if you buy online you still have to go and queue at machine for ticket so this system is daft. Why can’t we just print and scan as they do in Europe!
    6) If it weren’t for the ticket office and staff at Sevenoaks there would be total anarchy. I hope they don’t reduce staff further.
    7) I put Oyster as lowest priority as can’t see it happening any time soon…

  2. @julie Thanks for this. Some points:

    (7) actually Oyster for Sevenoaks and Dunton Green is one of the simpler changes – it was done for Dartford and for Swanley in the 2014-2018 franchise, and was nearly done for Sevenoaks at the same time. Its practicability was also checked as part of the consideration of TfL devolution – since Sevenoaks and Dunton Green are the only “metro” stations not already on Oyster. It does not need any systemic changes to the national fare system. There is strong local support, especially from Dunton Green (who only get Metro services) and Michael Fallon has written very strongly in support of Oyster.

    (1) Better tickets for flexible and part-time workers is certainly a priority. The capability to deliver it was part of the original “Key” smartcard specification, but it was descoped by DfT in 2014 to save money. Chiltern Railways have implemented a system using “Carnet” tickets without smartcards or other complexity. It’s certainly a priority for us and for many other groups across Kent.

    (2) DfT’s line is that cost per mile is no longer the only basis of rail fares, but it’s not clear why prices to Sevenoaks are higher than prices to similar, relatively affluent, towns on the outskirts of Greater London like Reigate.

    (3) Sevenoaks probably does not have period returns because it is part of the “metro” area – but unlike the rest of the metro area it does not have Oyster (which does not have returns) pricing either.

    (5) Buying online and then having to collect your ticket at a TVM is indeed daft – especially as on several occasions recently the system for collecting tickets has failed across Southeastern as a whole, and customer have had to buy a second ticket from the ticket office. Print-at-home and mobile-phone tickets would overcome this.

    (6) Although most of the publicity has been about trying to remove guards, GTR have also been trying to close ticket offices. As you say, in the current system help from the ticket office is essential.

  3. Whilst the website says that tickets bought online can only be collected from the nominated station, in my experience they can be collected from any TVM across the entire rail network. I’ve certainly collected tickets specified to be collected from Dartford at Birmingham New Street.

  4. @mike Thanks. We suspect that originally the architecture was to download the tickets to a server at the station (thus the 2 hour waiting period) and so they could only be collected at the nominated station. But with stand-alone TVMs at small stations (eg Dunton Green) there is no local server, so the architecture may now be that they are retrieved from a central server when the customer gets to the TVM. This has of course introduced a vulnerability to nationwide failure if the central server is down – which has happened a number of times recently.

    Also any credit card works, not just the one used for the purchase.

  5. You also cannot buy a weekly ticket the day before it starts until midday from the ticket office, not clear what the reason for it. Although online I can buy it for any day two weeks in advance.

  6. @NC Thanks. We thought that the restriction on advance purchases of season tickets was that they only have a “valid up to” date on them – both on the printed side and on the magnetic stripe. If you buy a weekly ticket online two weeks in advance can you collect it immediately?

    It is possible that the “Key” smartcard holds both start and finish dates, but if so it should allow advance purchases at the ticket office too.

  7. Yes, mike is correct in that tickets can be collected at any TVM regardless of the station nominated at time of purchase.

    Conversely, Dunton Green (at least) is not selectable online for ticket collection even though it does have a TVM, and I have collected tickets from its machine many times even though I’m forced to select a different ‘collection’ station.

    On a bigger point – well done to all of those who put together the responses to the consultation, a truly Herculean effort. Makes my subs the most value for money thing it’s possible to buy that has the words Sevenoaks and Rail in its title !

    Best.

  8. @Secretary We haven’t tried buying them online, but I cannot think why you would not be able to collect a paid ticket at any time in advance (as I have done when going on holiday). That day we just wanted a weekly starting the next day but were 30 minutes early before they were allowed to sell them (silly restriction), easily could be purchased on the way back later in the day though.

  9. @NC Thanks. You can collect a ticket bought online well in advance from a ticket machine; the issue is that you directly buy the SAME ticket from the SAME machine in advwnce – for an offpeak from Sevenoaks not until 0919 the day of travel!

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