The first week of the new arrangements in Car Park 4 coincided with half-term so it was probably not the most severe test of the new system. Nevertheless the lower section, for non-season ticket holders, was reported full by 073o on some mornings, with lots of unused space in the upper section – where more space was available than the total number of monthly and annual season tickets issued.
Starting tomorrow Monday 31 October there are some changes to the system:
the area reserved until 0830 for monthly and annual season ticket (“permit”) holders has been reduced to more closely match the number of “permits” issued. This “yellow”area is part of the upper car park closest to the station. But the rest of the upper car park, the spaces on the ramp and the whole of the lower car park, is available to for day tickets, weekly tickets and scratchcards – the “blue area”.
the reserved area has been marked with yellow lines and some text on the surface of the car park – although the text is actually on the wrong side of the line!
This rebalancing of the spaces reserved for season ticket holders and available for day tickets is welcome. But there are some remaining issues:
- even late on Sunday the previous signage was still on some of the lampposts, indicating that areas that are now supposed to be available to day parkers is reserved. This will cause confusion.
the staff car parking – which was “temporarily” increased for the Olympics in 2012 – has not been reduced, even though during the week we saw that only 1 out of 14 spaces were used (unsurprisingly staff seem to prefer using their other spaces in Car Park 1 closer to the station). Southeastern had said that they would free some of these spaces, but this has not been done yet.
Southeastern insist on using the term “permits” – and have now painted this on the car park surface. In railway-speak apparently monthly and annual season tickets are “permits” while day, weekly and scratch-card payments are “tickets”. However most people refer to “season tickets” – and that’s actually the term that Southeastern use on their car parking website!- There has been no progress in getting some of the underused spaces in the temporary Sevenoaks District Council car park in Morewood Close made available for day parkers.
- There’s nothing to tell day parkers where they can safely park before 0830 – only where they cannot, or to explain that weekly tickets do not count as “permits”. With a payment of over £6 a day and with the threat of a £100 fine for parking in the wrong place, all car park users deserve clear information.
Thanks to all our members and supporters who have commented on the problems that they have been encountered and their experience with the arrangements last week. Please keep us updated on your experience by commenting here.
Updated 1930 31 October: more accurate map of the different areas now supplied by Southeastern.
For new readers, previous coverage of the Car Park 4 issue is here and here.
This update has been very helpful -and more information than we have had from any of the parking/SE websites. Last week I spoke to one of the Indigo men there helping people (Season permits or day tickets) find the right place to park and they were moving cones as needed to balance the parking effectively. He said they would be continuing to be there. If so this does help ensure parking is smooth for everyone. But whether this is actually the case this week – when the system will be tested much more severely and the boudnaries have been marked in – remains to be seen – but last week they were doing a good job it seemed.
Whilst, understandably, there is a lot of interest in the current acute problems it is shame that there isn’t more interest being shown by SDC and Southeastern in some of the more systemic problems.
Even some small things could be improved. For example, for newer residents or visitors, the current system or multiple car-parks and operators is completely opaque:
If one goes to the Southeastern website, two car-parks are listed, curiously described as 1 and 4. Both are shown on the map as the station itself and have Tubbs Hill as their address, even thought that is hardly likely to help someone find them. Car-park 1 is listed as being permit holders only even though that is not the case.
If you then go to the SDC website to see if you can find carparks 2 and 3; there is reasonably helpful information about the Bradbourne car-park being closed and replaced by Moorwood Close on a temporary basis. However, the hierarchy of headings is wrong so it is not then clear that the next car-park listed, Sennocke, is close to the station; whilst the one afterwards, St Johns and St James is not at all.
National Rail lists 1 and 4 but at least with accurate information about when you can use 1.
Would it be too much to ask for SDC and Southeastern to agreed on numbering; list all four carparks, with the hours of operation; charges; and an accurate map so people can find where they can park and how much it will cost?
2) The street sign-age is terrible. Most town centres now have clear signs directing people to short- and long-stay carparks, even when, unlike Sevenoaks, the route to the car-park is obvious. The route into car-park 4 isn’t at all intuitive and it seems to me that it would help to have clear signage from the station itself to it, especially to help those who might do the obvious thing and go to car-park 1 thinking that they can park there.
3) I am not by any means anti-driving but it does seem regrettable to me that more effort it not put into public transport to the station. I wouldn’t be surprised if many of the season tickets are owned by people within a few miles of the station who live in the major villages and a slightly more frequent bus service, running slightly later in the evening would tempt them out of their cars… I despair every time I walk down London Road finding it gridlocked at 8am and the noise and pollution is hardly attractive for walking or cycling…
So today is Monday 31st October : first day back after half term.
What was it like at the car park this morning – I went a completely different route to Cannon Street as I needed to be in London by 8.00am and could not afford for any delay due to lack of parking.
Any advice much appreciated.
@sc
This morning the car park had two members of Indigo staff on the entrance explaining what to do to each driver. At 8.15 thre were still one or two spaces in the unrestricted area, but the low areas was full and the upper level it almost full. The staff also thought it was a fairly ‘light Monday’ and expected more cars tomorrow. We didn’t see anyone turned away.
The area restricted to season tickers (or ‘permits’ as the signs say) had more empty spaces at 8.15. By 8.30 it was noticeable that more cars were arriving, so it looks as if rail passengers are adapting behaviour to reflect the restrictions.
Although the schools are back this week, it seemed that the Sevenoaks traffic on the A25 and round the station was fairly light compared to normal. So maybe today still wasn’t a full test
Plenty of schools still on half term this week so the real test will be next Monday onwards.
We’ve been checking on the car park during the week, and as far as we can see:
Thursday seemed to be a day with more pressure on the South Eastern parking. By around 1.00 pm there were only only 3 empty spaces in the South eastern car park, but 30+ empty spaces in the SDC Morewood Close car park. In addition there were several cars parked in the South Eastern car park outside marked spaces – which is a good ‘desperation index’. These are people so desperate to catch a train they will risk a £100 fine from Indigo to make it to London on time.
Today (Friday) things looked a bit easier. There were about 25 empty spaces in the South Eastern car park at midday, but almost all of them were in the season ticket area – and the day / weekly ticket area was full. So it looks if drivers who work flexibly and can’t afford a season ticket, are still finding it hard to find day spaces. The SDC Morewood Close car park – which is still season ticket only – had over 40 spaces at midday.
There’s a complete shambles today in Car Park 4. No spaces left anywhere at lunchtime. Many cars are parked out of bays and in staff parking spaces, several with handwritten notices of complaint by season ticket holders. There’s flooding in both upper and lower levels: people have parked there, but their feet would have been wet. (photograph)
The temporary Sevenoaks District Council car park is a sea of mud (photograph), with about 50 empty spaces.
It appears to be a bit of a class system when all the daily ticket payers (who pay more per day incidentally) are pushed to the back of the car park or forced on the ramp or on the lower ground parking areas. I frequently notice that at 8.00 there are lots of season ticket holders spaces going free, whereas you are hard pushed to find a space for the daily ticket holders.
We cannot all buy season tickets – some of us are part-time workers and it would not make financial sense to buy a weekly/monthly. But, at £6.90 or £7.10 if you pay by phone, you deserve to have a CHOICE where you park.
I would also like to point out that women on their own returning late from work are uncomfortable having to go down deserted stairs and to the back of car parks on their own to get to their car. All in all, this is a very unsatisfactory system.
The two lads there are trying their best to help people. Most people understand why they are doing it but there is a small minority that always argue with them, which is wrong. I’m a daily ticket buyer: I don’t like parking where I’m told but I just get on with it. Why can’t others do the same instead of arguing with the guys doing their job? If they don’t like it then they should walk to the station.
@jim
We’ve not seen any criticism of the ‘lads’ trying to help. They don’t make the rules. And Southeastern have said that they will waive some of the fines issues before the new scheme came into effect.
Walking is an option for some. But we’ve been struck by the story of a flexible working parent who, on commuting days, used to take their children to school by car, and then drive to and park at the station; and in the evening collect the car and then the children. Without the ability to park they have to drop the children off early, go back home, and then walk – wasting a lot of time that they could spend with their children.
How is everyone getting on with the new system in car park 4 at sevenoaks station. I think its working well.
@Jim
There have been few comments in the last few days, which hopefully means that people have adjusted to the new system.
However this morning there have been reports that the car park was unexpectedly completely full at 0835 (apparently some regular day parkers now aim to arrive just after 0830 as more spaces should be available). This is probably because there is a strike on Southern today (and tomorrow): their customers will be coming to Sevenoaks in larger numbers and some may be unfamiliar with the new system. We have written to Southeastern asking them to re-instate marshals for strike days to make sure that everyone knows, and keeps to, the new rules.
The marshals have been there all week as i was talking to 1 on tuesday about the car park. This was about 8.15. They were saying most people know where they can and can’t park now so they’re happy, but they was saying they’re still getting people complaining about it. Specially some woman who use the discriminating word towards them. Which is unfair on the guys trying their best
Today the marshals were not directing people as they have been (very helpfully) so far however at 8:20 they were wandering about ticketing cars despite the non permit holders but being full and the top being perhaps 1/3 empty!
The marshals have been there for five weeks telling everyone where they can and cannot park, so surely people should know by now. If people had any questions they would have asked. As for the ticketing people, they are doing their job so if you don’t like it then either walk to the station or don’t park where you shouldn’t.
When this system came in it pissed me off big time. Several weeks in I am just ever more pissed off with it. You start with an over-priced ticket for an over crowded train; add in the daily nightmare of trying to pay for parking via one of the most frustrating web sites ever devised; and when you get to the car park there is some poor sap telling you that you can’t park in the almost empty area but instead must try to find a slot in the almost full bit.
I can only surmise that the point of South East Trains is not to run a transport service but devise low level ways of driving people round the bend. And the worst of it the having no alternative.
@denzil. It’s not the parking guys’ fault. No need to call them names. All they’re doing is their job and they get told what to do from Southeastern. Yes, it is annoying being told you can’t park, but when there’s a Southern strike what else can they do?
I pay for a weekly ticket and have been happily abiding to the system thus far, parking in the non-permit holders section. Today I arrived at the car park at 7:40am to find that all the non-permit holder spaces were full. As a result, I had nowhere else to park apart from in the permit holders section. I came back from work to find I had received a parking ticket which was issued at 7:51am.
What am I meant to do in this situation? I feel this is quite unfair as I have paid for my week’s parking (with less spaces now available since the new system, yet no price cut) yet there is nowhere for me to park without getting fined £60.
8th December: Non-permit car park full by 0745. I have a weekly ticket and cannot park or go to work.
Permit section half empty.
This is not acceptable.
Any ideas?
We were all told that we could either come back at 08.30 or risk getting a penalty notice if we parked in the permit section.
If people don’t want to listen then that’s their fault not Indigo’s.
So I should have to change what time I get to work because the car park I have paid for is full? How is that fair?
I understand that we were all told to either come back at 8:30 or risk a fine but people have commitments to get to work, getting kids to school on time etc..
Not that simple as “come back at 8:30”
Remember Southern are on strike again next week. So no doubt marshals will be there again and will probably be same as this week. People getting turned away.
It’s still a shambles. It’s absolutely outrageous that these changes still haven’t been reversed. There isn’t enough parking anymore in CP4, that’s all there is to it. The change that has come in has just made the daily commute even worse. The new painted yellow line area makes no difference at all – that particular bit is already full up early in the morning.
There is NO justification to this other than Southeastern being an obstructive as possible. Yes ok it might not be the fault of the guys on the gates who are telling people where to park, but they are the ones that then pounce on the car AFTER you clearly cannot find a “valid” space because of the re structure! That doesn’t hold water, I’m afraid – it’s a load of rubbish.
All that has happened here is that Southeastern have proven themselves to be an even higher level of useless [people] than they were beforehand. They are probably the most hated company in this neck of the woods and quite rightly so.
Oh yeah I almost forgot – the only way around it is to be given a “permit”. You’ll have to wait 5 years, though. My workplace wouldn’t be very happy if I turn up 5 years late to work after next week.