It’s a Terminal in London, but it’s not a London Terminal!
Many of us have an annual National Rail Only season ticket valid between Sevenoaks/Bat & Ball and “London Terminals”. Due to the rebuilding work at London Bridge is often more convenient to use the Thameslink services direct to Kings Cross/St Pancras than to brave the Northern Line.
Yet while St Pancras looks like a Terminal station and is definitely in London, it does not count as a “London Terminal”. Neither does Farringdon.
If you are making a single journey then you need to buy a special rail ticket specifying St Pancras. At peak times a single from Sevenoaks to St Pancras Thameslink (not via HS1) is £11.90 (£11.60 offpeak). This is only 10p more than the peak single fare from Sevenoaks to London Terminals of £11.80 (£11.50 offpeak).
When you buy the ticket you need to make sure that you are not given a “St Pancras via Underground” ticket – that’s £14.80 in the peak. Make clear to the booking office that you are going to St Pancras and want a National Rail Only ticket.
You need to take special care using the Ticket Vending Machines. They are not obliged to quote you the cheapest fare for your journey. What is more, the National Rail Only fare is not easy to find. Neither “St Pancras” nor “Saint Pancras”, and “Kings Cross St Pancras” is not there either. You need to know that in railway-speak the station is called “London St Pancras”. That’s a peculiar name since for fare purposes “London St Pancras” is not a “London Terminal”! (A further peculiarity is that if you want to buy a national rail only ticket to Farringdon you have to select the destination “Farringdon Underground” – even though the ticket does not include Undergrond travel.)
If you have a season ticket to London Terminals then it seems impossible not to pay through the nose: you could buy a paper ticket from City Thameslink to St Pancras in advance so you could stay on the same train, but that would cost £2.80 more. Alternatively you could leave the train at City Thameslink, trudge up to the ticket barriers, exit using your season ticket, re-enter using your Oyster card, trudge back down to the same platform and hope that the next train won’t be delayed. That is very inconvenient, especially if you are travelling with luggage, and would still cost £2.30 more.
The fact that St Pancras is not a London Terminal from the south causes a lot of confusion; we understand that London Travelwatch have had numerous cases where passengers have been penalty fared for inadvertently buying the ‘wrong’ ticket (a nice little earner for the rail companies of course).
We are calling on Southeastern and Thameslink to change the designation of Farringdon and St Pancras to be part of the “London Terminals” group for travellers from the south. We don’t believe that the fare difference of 10p is material to their income, and it would make the fare system simpler and more understandable for their customers.
Hello, any luck with your petition?
Alas not yet. We have sent a chaser.
Interestingly, commuting on Thameslink to Blackfriars, for over 6 months till Christmas Farringdon was a London terminal where my ticket (season to London Terminals, not a travelcard) was accepted. That was on the National Rail website as a temporary measure while London Bridge etc. work was ongoing. In December that stopped without any warning. Now I tried out of curiosity and my season ticket is accepted again at Farringdon. There is no information regarding this though, just trial and error. So it is clear they do not want to communicate these changes. One may say, you could ask their staff when buying a ticket??
Food for thought: when I was renewing my season ticket last year, I was asked where I go to. As I sometimes go to Farringdon, among other terminals, I was offered a more expensive travelcard as Farringdon was allegedly not covered. Needless to say it was a losing game to reason with them that I can travel to Farringdon cheaper, and even according to the national rail website. I used a cheaper ticket anyway for months after that. Clearly we should expect to be misled and overcharged, not unusual.
I have the same problem! makes no sense that Farringdon isn’t a terminal station, the designation seems to be a legacy of some old system.
I travel from brighton and have to get off a train I have been on for 80 minutes, which by that point is virtually empty, then walk from thameslink. It’s crazy!
Unless I’m mistaken I can’t use Thameslink with my annual season ‘London Terminals’ season ticket? I can’t afford to pay anymore, so no I am not thankful, I feel ripped off.
@sarah Yes, you can use a Sevenoaks to London Terminals ticket on Thameslink services from Sevenoaks to Elephant & Castle, Blackfriars or City Thameslink.
Please note that the ticket is not valid beyond City Thameslink to Farringdon or St Pancras.
Interesting I was refused entry with my annual gold card at city thameslink a few months ago
@james
That’s odd. City Thameslink is on the list of London Terminals valid for Sevenoaks tickets and Thameslink trains from Sevenoaks to City Thameslink is a valid route by the ‘through train’ rule. Were you given any explanation please?
No ticket didn’t work in the barrier and they guy at the gate line said it wasn’t valid because it was a southeastern ticket. I never bothered to look into it further.
@james Very strange. Where on the ticket did it say that it was a Southeastern ticket?! Currently all tickets from Sevenoaks to London are supposed to be for all operators, and ensuring that that continues after Metro services are devolved to TfL is an important requirement for devolution.
I didn’t. It was a standard sev to london gold card. Sounds like just one illinformed gate person.
But it failed in the gate as well? That should be programmed to accept anything with the London Terminals code on it. Can you remember the date please, and we can follow up with Thameslink?
My ticket stopped working completely last week, due to the data being wiped off the strip, and since then I’ve had to walk to the barrier and get through. This morning the guard stopped me to let me know that my ticket wasn’t actually valid at Farringdon and to be careful as there have been inspectors the past week. There is a tiny sign up saying it’s not a London Terminal on the guard office which he pointed out. He advised the furthest I could go on my ticket was City Thameslink, which is a bit out the way for me, so it looks like I’ll be going to London Bridge from now on and walking.
Farringdon has never been a London Terminal – City Thameslink inherited the status from the old Holborn Viaduct station.
You can buy a Sevenoaks to Farringdon rail-only ticket for only 10p a journey more than a London Terminals ticket. But then you wouldn’t have the flexibility to use London Terminal stations that are not on the direct route to Farringdon – such as Charing Cross, Victoria or Cannon Street.
It’s hard to believe that Southeastern make much money from these extra 10p fares. They probably make more money from the fines from passengers making the reasonable assumption that Farringdon is in London.
I buy daily or weekly tickets from Sevenoaks to Farringdon and when requesting a ticket, many times (not always) I’ve clearly mentioned Farringdon as my destination (and that I don’t need a travelcard around London). As such the guys at the kiosk have issued me with a London terminals ticket. And, for all the times I’ve travelled to Farringdon, I’ve been using such tickets for more than 6 months now.
It’s also important to note, I put my ticket through the barrier at Farringdon and it lets me through! However, today I had my hands full so rather than taking my ticket out of the wallet I showed the guy at the barrier my travelcard so he could let me walk straight through and he told me that my (London Terminals) ticket isn’t valid for Farringdon. I told him HONESTLY that I’ve always asked for a ticket to Farringdon when asked by ticket sales at Sevenoaks (sometimes I do just ask for a repeat of the ticket from last week if I still have it in my wallet but this week for example I did clearly state Farringdon as my destination) and this is what they issue me!?
He told me that if I was stopped by the ticket checkers they’d fine me. I retorted that surely it’s Sevenoaks stations fault if I have requested a ticket to Farringdon and this is what they have issued me but he said no, it would be my fault? How can I be at fault if it is their error, incompetence – surely some of their staff need to be trained better about this quirk – and it does feel like a bit of a quirk reading all the comments above and I’m not sure all the guards truly know what’s permitted and what’s not. I just checked online whether Farringdon is a London Terminal and its not – so the guy at Farringdon is right! It irks me that I pay the equivalent of 4.5k p.a. and its just gone up £7 a week and I can’t even get issued the correct ticket issued, am exposed to an embarrassing situation at the barrier, and moreover, could have also been vulnerable to a fine on top of the already crazy fares and increases.
Why can’t they just provide one ticket especially if there isn’t any real difference in price as you’re entering “London” anyway.
@Andy If you stated your destination as Farringdon then Sevenoaks ticket office were wrong to issue you a London Terminals ticket. Southeastern London Terminals tickets are not valid to Farringdon or St Pancras.
Technically you are at fault in travelling to Farringdon with an invalid ticket, but any fine should be waived on appeal if the ticket office staff made a mistake (you get no compensation for the hassle involved though). If there is any difficulty please contact us.
We are surprised that the London Terminals ticket opened the Farringdon barriers – in the past they have not (confusingly the St Pancras barriers did open – because the code on the magnetic stripe for Southeastern London Terminals is the same as the code for north-of-London London Terminals tickets.
We agree that Farringdon and St Pancras should be covered by Southeastern and Thameslink London Terminals tickets, especially as there are more trains going there.
Hi All,
I hope someone can help. I have just started working in King’s Cross, very close to the station at the top of Gray’s Inn Road.
This end of the tracks I live quite a bit closer to Bat and Ball than Sevenoaks.
I have an all-zones travelcard already.
I was hoping to buy an annual ticket from Sevenoaks to London Terminals and then on some days get a train from Sevenoaks to London Bridge/Charing Cross/Waterloo East/Cannon Street then get a tube or bus for the rest of the journey and on other days simply go to Bat and Ball and go straight up to St. Pancras.
Oh, and finally I’d like to do the New Cross split ticket to save some money and put it all on a Key Card.
Phew! Not much then.
Can someone please tell me what is possible? From this article it would appear as though I can’t get a ticket that covers this requirement…even though when I search on Southeastern, the cost of the ticket from New Cross up to St Pancras is the same as New Cross to London Terminals (£796).
Any thoughts as to what I should do?
Many thanks in advance
@Andy We have had a report that Thameslink London Terminals tickets from the north now extend to Elephant and Castle. This would explain why your London Terminals ticket opened the barriers at Farringdon. However Thameslink London Terminals tickets from Sevenoaks and Bat & Ball do not extend beyond City Thameslink.